Aug 25, 2001
Does anyone remember the Fram or Puralator oil filter exchange number for the Westerbeke 30? My log is in the office and I want to service the engine tomorrow.
Aug 25, 2001
I changed mine just yesterday, Fram PH-16
Aug 25, 2001
I have the 1975 Four-91
One Fram catalog calls for PH8A but most and the previous owners back to when this boat was Seagull, have used PH16.
The Puralator cross is PER-17
Just in case you get ambitious, here are the Fuel Filter #s Fram C1191A (secondary at the engine) Fram CCS1136 Fuel Water Separator Cartridge Fram CA12 Air Filter
Aug 26, 2001
What is the is the CCS1136 Fuel Water Separator Cartridge used in?
Aug 27, 2001
Fram FCS1136M body
Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:05 pm
Many of us don't have it, but could be interested as a permanent alternative to a Baja filter/separator.
Aug 28, 2001
I have a fuel-water separator (with no element, however) mounted on the bulkhead at the forward end of the port cockpit locker just upstream from my primary filter. I collects some water and goo, but is no substitute for keeping water and bacteria out of the tank in the first place -- which I have not always succeeded in doing.
Aug 29, 2001
PickPocket's fuel water separator-/filter is located in the 1/4''copper tube run between the steel fuel tank and the mechanical fuel pump.
It is mounted on the port bridge deck / galley bulkhead as high as possible.This still seems to allow a gravity flow when the tank is full.
I was able to complete the changeout while accumulating about a quart of fuel in a catch pan.
The Fram is a 1 micron filter and paper element to block water not fuel. The water is collected in a sump witch can be drained by loosening a 1/4''NPT brass plug.
There is a quarter turn block valve after the fuel/ water sep to isolate it and keep air from entering the line to the pump and injectors (saves air bleeding procedure)
The secondary filter is between the fuel pump and the injectors and gets clean fuel provided by the Fram fuel / water separator primary filter.
This maintenance was easy. I hate doing the air bleed process.
Next time I may add a valve upstream of the Sep to make things a little less messy.
Aug 29, 2001
Please be advised that a lot of our Seawinds suffer from rust in the steel/corten tank. Often the engine shuts down unexpectedly when the filter clogs with debris from the tank. This never happens in the slip; it's when bouncy seaway stirs up the crud in the tank.
You might want to take a bunch of spare filter elements with you on this trip, just in case.
Aug 29, 2001
Saw the excellent advice you gave Dale. One thing has worked for us, we keep the tank full of fuel and this has "hopefully" taken care of the problem.
Aug 29, 2001
A friend of ours, a world circumnavigator inspected our vessel and suggested that we change our fuel filter system to achieve a filter change at night, no lights, in a minute or so. After some thoughtful and careful movement of the primary filter, installation of a shutoff valve, we have such a system. We have only had to use it on two occasions but one was on a rough rainy night as we were approaching a port downwind with two rock jetties dead ahead. It paid off that night. We changed the filter and had the engine running in only seconds.
2nd thought, when we first obtained our vessel every time we were motoring in rough or rolly conditions the engine fuel filters clogged. At first we thought it was bacteria, but after a few years we came to believe that it was fine rust scale off the walls of the fuel tank. We have a steel tank. To avoid the rust scale, we now keep the tank full of fuel when at the wharf and this has been a cure for the problem now for over 8 years, now when in rough sea conditions the engine keeps purring.
Aug 29, 2001
I shall heed all this great advice, have bought 3-sets as spares. For the sea trial the owner only put enough fuel for a four hour trip to the boat yard and back!
Has anyone on this list ever slipped a boat under sail? I have seen it done with racing sloops but never with a cruiser.
Looks like this trip will be a wet one.
Aug 30, 2001 8:36 pm
I still like my dual Racor system in parallel, with ability to inspect, switch at sea and while motoring. that is ahead of the normal fuel filter itself ahead of the engine mechanical filter.
But I shall look into the fuel-water separator
Aug 30, 2001
I also religiously add Biobor before adding any substantial quantity of fuel, in the maintenance dosage except towards the end of season, then stronger dose.
Fri Aug 31, 2001
I knew a fellow who owned a 36' Allied Princess. He had a Racor 500 fuel filter and kept getting a cup of water trapped in it on a frequent bases. Frankly I thought he was lying, but when I saw the amount of water when he was changing it, I was shocked! He asked if I would help him find the source. After a brief inspection, I noticed that his refueling point was located within an inch of the toe rail in a low area as the boat sat at the wharf. I grabbed a hose, sprayed water on the deck and guess where the water settled, you bet right at the refueling cap. This is how he was getting fuel in the water, a bad seal and bad design but the racor 500 fuel/water separator was doing a great job and he never to my knowledge had an engine failure due to water.
One thing we do if expecting a deep low or depression or worst to hit us, is take a little grease and cover the fuel cap. Then when the stern gets a full wave or two the fuel cap can not let any water into the tank. To date our Racor has not trapped any water in it.
Your system is without doubt the best in the industry from my viewpoint and I sure envy you.
PS. Once met a fellow in the Dry Tortugas that had engine trouble, ie, fuel starvation, the problem was the little round ball in the Racor was plugged with a black mass of crud. Guess he did'nt clean out the unit very often. We remove and completely dismantle ours on an annual basis and it really amazes me the amount of crud I get out.
Aug 31, 2001
I never saw any water in any of the two Racors, I guess I have been lucky. Crud and especially gelatinous "goo" were found everywhere in Tenerife, which made me take seriously Biobor, and I have had moderate amounts since, so I don't need anymore to switch every 3 months as I used to do offshore, for the 8 mo. after the Tenerife experience. Again, thanks for saving me from adding another canister to the fuel circuit...
Aug 31, 2001
I use a CAV adapter to conventional spin-on filters, easy to change and find in islands. It is bolted on the stbd bulkhead, in the way of the narrow "wet" locker (one of the driest places on-board, and religiously kept that way) for bolt-nut accessibility. Back America side in St.Martin, I had to replace the large screws that were getting loose due to strong stress when twisting off the filter, most mechanics tighten far too much!!
That filter is located between the engine filter and the two parallel Racor 500 filters, with an electric fuel pump added along between the two filters to help during bleeding and starting.
Sep 1, 2001
I still have the old 4-91 which purrs like a kitten, despite 2800 hours. You mention that you have a "CAV" replacement for the secondary filter. I'm still using the Westerbeke-supplied engine-mounted filter, which is a nightmare to change. What is the "CAV"? Any suggested suppliers or additional info? Also, on my secondary there's a return line from the injection pump to the filter (as I recall). Does that also go to the "CAV"?
Sep 1, 2001
The CAV is that nightmare you describe.
The housing is mounted to the back of the engine by only two bolts if I recall. Move it to somewhere that allows more user friendly access, there's more than enough tubing to do so. ABC Machine Works ( I believe) makes a conversion kit to a spin-on filter that makes changing the original CAV almost a breeze.
Returning fuel filtering has been often touted but in my mind only if one starts with a new tank. It seems a waste of filtering elements if you begin with almost any amount of sediment.
Sep 8, 2001
Another question on fuel filters, particularly the secondary. My Voyager still has the engine-mounted CAV which is tough to change. One thought: why not replace it with a bulkhead-mounted Racor? The primary is already a Racor; the elements would thus be interchangeable, there would be few or no problems with bleeding the system after a filter change, etc.
Does this make sense?
Sep 8, 2001
The CAV is a final filter element with an infinitely smaller screen filtering to less than 2 microns. If Racor makes a final filter of this capacity it makes sense to me. But the unit can easily be removed from its mounting on the engine and brought to the bulkhead under the battery box. It may also be converted to a spin-on cartridge type.
Sep 9, 2001
I agree that you want to have some finer filtering downstream from the Racor, and a 40+$ CAV-Spin standard adaptor will resolve the problem you have (and allow access to many brands of spin-on filters), rather than adding another Racor which might not be enough to protect your injection pump and injectors.s
1530 Feb 11, 2002
Hi All,
I was wondering if anyone has the Universal 5424 (model 30) diesel engine. My �79 apparently came equipped with this engine instead of the Westerbeke. I�m having trouble finding oil and fuel filters (other than the ones supplied by the mfgr). Any cross reference info would be appreciated.
Bill S.
1545 Feb 13, 2002
Bill,
I�ve had Universals on two previous boats, one a three cyl and the other four cyl - but they were essentially the same engine. The oil filter is the Fram PH8A, same as on our Westerbekes. Don�t remember the Fram number for the fuel filer but I know there is one. The Boat/US in Ft. Lauderdale was recently able to come up with a Fram replacement for the Westerbeke fuel filter so they can probably do the same for you if you have the Universal part number, or just from you engine model number. They may also be able to cross reference it at NAPA.
Good luck,
Gil Steinfort, KP2U
1928 Jun 10, 2002
A very long time ago, when working on diesel generators on Navy destroyers, we would jury rig up fuel filters that would run in serial mode (regular - one after the other) but also have a valve to have them run in parallel where you could isolate on or the other and still have the generator run. Typically the first one in the series would clog, you�d shift to parallel running fuel only through the secondary, pop out the first one and change it, etc., etc.
Tom Lix
Relief #17
Dec 15, 2002
Sorry, I thought you said that it was the CAV filter you changed from the port cockpit locker. Maybe you meant to say starboard as the CAV filter is mounted aft on a bracket on the starboard side of the engine - exactly as shown in several pictures in both the overhaul manual and the parts manual. I don't see how the builder would even get involved with it. I agree that moving the ladder is a pain - but not as much of a pain as emptying the cockpit locker and I have good access to the starboard side of the engine for fuel system bleeding, oil filter change, etc. by crawling in from the salon.
There is no standard. My CAV was (now adapted to Fram et al. but still in the same place) on the stbd side immediately behind the fwd engine bulkhead.
I replaced in St,Martin the wood screws with through bolts, as the mounting started to wobble (some people screw the filters too tight), easy to do since the other side of the side bulkhead is in the wet hanging storage, and a good thing to do once you have the final location pat: I may have to raise that filter somewhat, in order to abide with a recent advice to place this disposable filter at the top of the fuel stream, to avoid air locks after change.
December 15, 2002
Sorry, I thought you said that it was the CAV filter you changed from the port cockpit locker. Maybe you meant to say starboard as the CAV filter is mounted aft on a bracket on the starboard side of the engine - exactly as shown in several pictures in both the overhaul manual and the parts manual. I don't see how the builder would even get involved with it. I agree that moving the ladder is a pain - but not as much of a pain as emptying the cockpit locker and I have good access to the starboard side of the engine for fuel system bleeding, oil filter change, etc. by crawling in from the salon.
The only way to install the fuel filter as the highest place in the
fuel system is to place it in the cockpit locker located above the level of the cockpit sole. However this is not likely to avoid the need to bleed the fuel system as by the time the engine has died from dirty filter the chances are that the air will be in the fuel injectors and they will need bleeding.
It is better to install the fuel filter low, as in the engine room.
If the filter is installed there, one doesn't need to pour diesel from a separate container into the filter to fill it, as the fuel will drain from the tank under gravity. Also in this position you are able to bleed the fuel system if needed.
I had a spell of dirty fuel with many obstructions of the fuel system.
If I was quite alert I was able to kill the engine before air got
into the injectors, and was often able to re-start the engine by
changing the filter without the need for bleeding.
Thank you for the input. I think I will do as you have done. Only difference is that I have to physically enter the starboard cockpit locker to attend to the filters.
December 15, 2002
I have been fortunate to plan for two Raccor filters in parallel that can be switched underway, in series with the Fram (or other brand) filter screwed on the CAV adapter. That served me well when goo invaded in the Canaries.
All three filters are on the stbd longitudinal bulkhead forward, immediately accessible after opening the half door that bears the 3 drawers. (the other half door frames the access door to the engine front and pan, a panel below the kitchen sink provides cramped access to the engine portside.)
Decemeber 11, 2002
Ohm Shanti #116, with a Westerblake 24hp diesel has the fuel line going to a CAV filter (which has no cartridge) then to a Racor (uses 2000 2micron
cartridge), then to engine fuel pump, then filter on engine, and finally to
injector pump. My CAV is just a chamber where water and heavy particles are
instructed to fall to the bottom. I understand there is an adapter for the
CAV that allows it to take a Racor filter cartridge. Is that what you have?
If so can you tell me if you are happy with that setup? I am thinking of
converting my CAV in that way or I have the option of replacing it with another filtering unit. Any suggestions?